Interview on Design Human Engineering (DHE) with John Lavalle at an NLP Mind Training Webinar
This NLP article on Design Human Engineering is offered as is from the Webinar with permission from Steve Boyley. Minor editing and article formatting done by Steve Boyley. The entire Webinar was done in a question answer format. Questions are in bold indicated with “Q:”
Webinars about NLP & DHE hosted by Steve Boyley. Transcribed by Craig Eubanks.
Q: What is it that sets Design Human Engineering apart from NLP?
Just to keep it simple: DHE contains basic skills of NLP, sub modalities, anchoring, language. But the entire direction is different… NLP was mostly therapeutic in nature, and remedial in nature, You know, lets go fix a problem.
Where as DHE is more what are we doing now and into the future, more generative in nature. It’s about building tools in side your mind as opposed to solving a problem. it’s about taking things that you want to do, and do them even better, or things you want to do and be able to do them really well. This is the baseline of it.
It is a whole Body/Brain approach to doing anything you want to do better.
Another distinction, is NLP was sequential in terms of eliciting information, but Design Human Engineering it is pretty much simultaneous elicitation. Which most people don’t understand because that have not gone deep enough into trance yet.
Time lines are only one component.
So this is more about a self development focus of DHE, DHE is about doing things inside to get results outside. NLP starts with a self focus and then shifts onto others and an awareness of them for information gathering
Design Human Engineering is more about what you can do for yourself so you can function better. Do things more elegantly and be more creative. As opposed to fixing someone else’s problems.
Q: Do you think Children under 12 can be taught DHE as easily as adults?
No. But if the adults would just learn to live a good life the children would do the same thing. Most children already have the skill to be extravagantly creative, at least till we put them in school and they get the creativity squashed out of them.
Q: Is it true Richard (Bandler) once said that sub modalities where a set of algorithms 64 non-linear variables?
Richard was primarily a mathematician and computer programmer, and musician. He never was a Gestalt therapist, he only spent some time with Fritz Perls to help him finish a book.
So the idea about how to manipulate sub modalities and how to make things work and how to transform them into language… so how can you use language to adjust those 64 non-linear variables to affect sub modalities. Richard extrapolated that from predicate calculus and a few other things and created a formula for how that would work.
People don’t realize how easy it is to adjust other peoples sub modalities just through language, without giving them an explicit set of instructions.
Richard was a programmer. he knows how language works, and how programming works and how mathematics works, so he figured how to put these together. That’s why early on Richard was much more able to do things than explain them. He was much better at doing them than explaining things. He can zap a formula through his mind then say something in a story kind of format and effect a change, which is why he is as good as he is at what he does.
Q: A lot of people say DHE born out of the thinking style Nicolai Tesla used, it that correct?
Well that is just one component of it, the ideas Tesla contributes to DHE in that if you can imagine it you can do it, and that You can build things in your brain. He constructed the equipment in his mind and calibrate that against the equipment he would build outside his mind.
The only thing Tesla didn’t have back then as far as we can tell, was the notion of time distortion. Had he had that, we may have had a whole lot of other problems that would have been solved a lot sooner.
Here was a guy that could build different types of equipment inside his mind, and he could run that equipment and measure it and the wear and tear over time, and calibrate that against the piece of equipment on the outside. Tesla was really good at taking something inside his mind and do it.
The other thing to keep in mind, we said it for years and years, some people don’t get it is that the map is not the territory. But we keep telling people that The territory is the map, in that the concept that someone can have an idea and then turn it into a reality. Everything that is on the outside had to start on the inside as an idea.
And the fact that someone can have an idea and imagine the possibilities of being able to do something first on the inside of their mind then manifest on the outside. The chair you are sitting in right now started as an idea inside somebody’s head.
It is not so much what Tesla did with his mind, but that he had control over it, and the control he had over it. And that is the functionality that comes from DHE training.
Q: Any corporations receptive to the ideas of NLP or DHE?
Corporations and businesses are not interested in NLP, Design Human Engineering or some latest technology. They want results. Don’t tell companies NLP or DHE, they are interested in results. You tell them you will get them results. So package what you have to them in the terms that you will get them results.
Q: Do you think a person could have enough control over their sub modality experience that they could drink a glass off water and create ever physical sensation of drinking – say a glass of expensive wine?
Yes it is called Positive Hallucination. It is simple enough to do, it is a deep trance phenomenon.
Q: How would you describe DHE to someone that had no concept of NLP?
It’s a way of learning how to build new tools inside your mind, to be able to take things you already do and do them better. Or take something you want to do and be able to do it.
For example, you Can build oscilloscopes in your mind to keep track of your voice, so you can adjust your voice to the tonality and resonance you want.
Some people have built laser measuring devices in their mind
Richard built a blood sugar meter in his mind and got his insulin levels to cut in half. he simply built a machine inside his brain so he would know what it is and where it should be.
Q: Is there any literature out there you would recommend on Design Human Engineering?
There really isn’t a whole lot out there, “Time for a Change” has a little in there, it is very difficult to explain in a book, that is why the book hasn’t come out. Richard and I have written and re-written the thing but it is very difficult to explain in print.
Q: Do you use handouts at the seminar?
Yes, we have a manual we hand out, but that is just to give you a basis of some basic level skill, and then handouts to help you build a control panel. But the idea for DHE is that you only need a small amount of base information to get going. All the rest you get to create because it is your world.
Q: Is it true that Richard (Bandler) accidentally deleted one of his books?
Yes it is. Richard doesn’t have much luck with electronics, and he was about 3/4 of the way through with a book, and he gets so excited about what he is doing he forgets to back it up. And yes it went zip! away very fast and very far.
Q: How long is the seminar? What happens over that time frame, can you describe what the experience will be like?
Design Human Engineering is 6 days long. Richard talks, John explains.
How it goes depends on the talent in the room and what people are willing to do. If we have a great group, then exactly what happens is that people really pitch in and help each other to develop new things.
Our seminars are really different because of the way we run things, we keep all the assholes out, they wouldn’t be able to handle all the freedom anyway.
Richard teaches by talking, I get a little bit more into the content, I will explain some things Richard doesn’t get into. When he is there I let him do most of the teaching as I love to watch him work.
Q: Have you found that DHE produces more of a spiritual connection than NLP training?
That depends on the experience you are going to have.
1st few days, they calibrate the group so they know how fast they can go. They want to know how fast or slow they can go and how deep and how far. Then cover basic skills stuff.
Then they teach how to create things. They have a science fair, Van deGraff generator & Tesla coil, and encourage people to bring things “toys” such as holograms and such. They want people to play with these things
Tons of deep trance, because you can do so many things in deep trance.
Most time spent in the middle having you design things that you want to do differently
Then Last few days is installation work.
There is never a dull moment.
Q: What are the differences between your and Richard’s (Bandler) spiritual beliefs?
I don’t know if I can explain Richards and how far they are in line with mine, but I want to make the distinction between what’s religion and what’s spiritual. Religion is where as long as it is a nominalization people want to get into your pocket for the money. Spiritual to me is that you have some kind of connection than what is on the physical plane here. To me, truly spiritual people live good lives… they don’t steal or hurt people. To me there is something out there though I don’t know just what it is.
Q: While at Steve Boyley’s training we got a sample of DHE, what would be a real world application of DHE outside of the training room?
Real world application: applying DHE in manufacturing. You can teach an operator that is running a machine, to calibrate the output of the machine to do this with tools inside his mind. Instead of using physical measuring devices. I have had Mechanics that can tell by vibration how much adjustment to make from the information they can gather.
Another example is, for those of you who come to our training you will see all the equipment on the stage. We have a trailer all the equipment goes into. I can take a look at all the boxes we have and equipment to go in, and know exactly what needs to go in and exactly what sequence. It’s just a matter of hallucinating what is out side the trailer and hallucinating it inside the trailer in the sequence it need to go in to fit. Sort of like hallucination the puzzle together before you start.
Q: Can you affect the environment around you with Design Human Engineering?
You can absolutely affect things on the environment. Just depends how far you want to take it.
Q: What are your opinions of the new energy psychology?
I don’t pay much attention since most of these things have been around for centuries. All the stuff that came out of NLP wasn’t created it was discovered. so all of these things have been out there just explained in a different way so that people like us can go out and do things and do things better.
If people are coming up with a new way of explaining what has been going on for eons, I am not really that interested, however if someone can come up and explain a new behavior, I am very interested.
I am also very skeptical and wary of the field of Psychology attempting to suck up all these other disciplines into their field so they can regulate them. So I am leery about a psychologist all of a sudden coming up with a way to access a persons spirituality so that some psych board can regulate it.
Q: I have heard that Richard (Bandler) keeps a mental checklist for each person at a seminar, is this true?
Richard keeps a checklist above each persons head, this is different for each person. How he chunks it and parses it I don’t know. So he knows what to do next.
Q: Does Richard (Bandler) have a photographic memory?
Everybody has a photographic memory, it is just a matter of how far they have developed it.
Q: How do we explore Design Human Engineering without getting big words or putting language to it? New ideas vs Big Words?
Simple, when you have an experience that you can’t put words to then you have had a really neat experience, and of course attempting to put words to well that is where the problem starts so there we go.
Q: In some of the trainings you guys teach this thing called control panels, is that related or a component of Design Human Engineering?
It is a way of people recognizing they can have conscious control. The idea is in Design Human Engineering to first learn how to have conscious control over your unconscious process. Because then you can fine tune your unconscious process and do this elegantly with precision. And you have to do that consciously because you want to know what you are doing, what you are tuning up and how you are fine tuning things. Then you can let it go back unconscious, so that the behaviors become unconscious for you.
Really its about people having more control over what they do.
As a simple example, some people can wake up in the morning at exactly the time they want with precision within seconds of when they want, but most people that do that are not aware of how they do that. Once they have conscious control and awareness of how they do that, then they can fine tune it and apply it to other things they do.
It is just a way of being able to map things out before you do the installation. Like Having a blueprint before you build it out. You are not actually building a control panel, but designing the installation. It is a way of getting to the installation.
Q: If someone was getting into DHE or NLP for self development, would you recommend they start with DHE?
It really depends on how much they want to do with with their own self development. Design Human Engineering takes a real shortcut to getting things done. We teach enough of basic NLP skills so people know about anchoring, hypnosis, language patterns, and sub modalities so it really depends on what they want to accomplish with their self development. We have people who have come through the training and their lives had changed so radically they are happy as a clam. They are out there doing so many wonderful things.
The amount of information that is really required in order to affect changes is not as much as people would learn consciously in some other NLP seminar.
It is just a matter of how much do you want to learn as opposed to how much you want to change.
Q: What is your definition of a genius?
Definition of A Genius: The people who are savvy enough to collect whatever information is necessary that is going on in the environment at that time, take that information and use it to calculate what to do next so that things happen.
In 1972/73 I had the opportunity to meet Mohamed Ali, I asked him how he was able to avoiding being hit like that. Later I was able with DHE to understand and analyze what he told me. What happens is that he was using time distortion as well. He would float outside his body from a couple of different positions so he could watch himself fight. He would be in 3 or 4 simultaneous different positions, and was able to see who ever he was fighting their muscle movements when they would get ready to throw a punch.
Q: Is the main challenge getting feedback to be sure the machines do what you think they do?
The first thing to do is to calibrate yourself to a machine with such precision that you can replicate that as you are testing without real live data. so you know your machine is working on the inside like it was a machine on the outside. Then you go from there.
Q: Is the process a lot to do with learning how to trust what you are already able to do?
Yeah that is a big part of it. for most people what the don’t realize is that they say “I will believe it when I see it, when the truth is they will see it when they believe it”
Most people have it wrong. As kids you believe a lot of these things, then you go to school and they squash your belief system. So it is a matter of relearning how to do this.
Q: What is your favorite type of anchor?
Sounds, those are the ones that are easiest to slip in, easiest to fire off since most people don’t pay attention to them. They are focused on the visual and kinesthetic anchors. I usually anchor in at least two or more modalities when I anchor.
Q: How would you define Intuition?
I want to make a distinction here between intuition and psychic ability.
Intuition is exquisite calibration against what is going on at the moment. Highly tuned sensory acuity. Fine tuned sense of calibration at the moment.
Psychic ability is to be able to see the future.
Q: I would love to be able to build a calibration machine to increase my ability to be intuitive… How would I do that?
When you notice you are getting intuitive information, notice when you are spot on. Make the distinction in the sub modalities when you are spot on. Backtrack to that moment when you thought it was going to happen, and notice how that had occurred in your modalities. Use a benchmark for when it works. Then notice when you thought you had an intuition but it didn’t work. Then you can figure what it is that works. Compare with what is working. There will be distance differences when it works and when it doesn’t
Then you build a machine based on what works. That includes you calibrating to your own experience so you know it is spot on and take action on it.
And don’t second guess. The first one is almost always right, don’t second guess.
Q: Do you think the change personal history is all in the head or that maybe alternate realities are swapped?
Combination of Both. Everything is in our brain, the Past doesn’t really exist, except for the way we have organized our memories.
Q: Does it change your reality?
Of course it does the that it affects now and how you will behave into the future changes things.
Q: How big a factor is language in Design Human Engineering?
Language is always going to be important if you are going to work with someone else or even yourself. But it is not everything, but it certainly is important to give instructions. You don’t need to be an expert at it, but you need to pay attention to what you are saying.
Q: How often do you need to test and re-install your DHE machine to ensure it is working. Is it a continuous conditioning process?
Great question. I always suggest people build in a regenerative machine. So that you always want to be better at anything you want to be good at. Have a feedback/feed forward machine going on where I collect information about how I am doing against how I want to be doing. So how did I do with that activity. And then gather the information so if I want to improve it, or if I learned a new way of doing it the information is already there. So that it is already in there the next time I go and do that. That is what generative change is truly all about, building on that which you already do well.
Q: How often do you test and reinstall?
Depends on what the activity is. But in some cases it is every day. It is just a matter of paying attention outside your head. Are you getting what you want on the outside, then readjust on the inside.
Q: Can history repeat itself?
History doesn’t repeat itself your behavior does. It’s your cell memory. The person really hasn’t learned from what ever it is they are doing. It’s really simple, If you learn from your mistakes you will tend not to repeat them.
You can change this around just by paying attention to what is going on and making adjustments so it just keeps getting better and better.
Q: Is a machine similar to a group of sequential anchors?
yes, because there are so many anchors we use. anchors just trigger a response and that is how machines really work anyway.
Q: Is Design Human Engineering about getting rid of limiting beliefs?
It’s not about getting rid of limiting beliefs. People can get rid of limiting beliefs. Beliefs don’t really exist inside our mind. They are just language patterns. A culmination of language patterns. And those language patterns have built up synaptic connections that prevent other information from getting through gateways.
It’s about what you give out and what you get back. Givers survive much more and have a happier life. Then there are the takers…
Q: What are the primary results of people who have taken the training?
This depends a lot on the individual, but typically they contact me later on and tell me how something they wanted to accomplish they have in fact accomplished and are on to bigger and better things.
If you can imagine it then you can do it. If you can imagine it is possible for you, then it is.
So really it’s about the degree of personal control in the design that people can have in their mind.
Q: You mentioned early about about the sub modalities and making adjustments to isolating the different sub modalities. How much does that play an effect in DHE?
It actually has a lot to do with it in the beginning. Everything culminates in the sub modalities because that is the way encode information. So you have an experience, you process the information, then you store the information and that is what is known as a deep structure.
And that’s what is represented in the sub modalities, especially when you want to recall the information or memories or resource, when you take from the hard drive inside your brain.
Everything is represented through sub modalities, because that is how we encode information. This is why sub modalities are so important.
One of the key factors that are used for DHE, people have gotten so accustomed to how they use their brain everyday that they are not aware of what synesthesias exist, or what sub modalities are there that they are using on a daily basis. And in some cases are not getting them more of what they want in their lives.
So the first thing we do is we work on the control panel. We teach people how to have very discreet control over each sub modality one at a time, while holding all the others constant. That way you are not driving the synesthesias like you have been and you get more conscious control over each and every sub modality.
Then once you have done that, you can build new synesthesias and combinations of things. But you will not be able to do that until you learn to have discreet control over each and every one of those sub modalities. That is an important part of the process.
Q: Would writers block be an example of not being in control of the sub modalities?
Writers block could be an example of not being in control of sub modalities, it can also be they don’t have enough good feelings. When you have the “right solution” writers block goes away. What is the right solution, you need the right chemicals in the brain. Sense of humor and being able to laugh at things.
People forget this about how the brain works, the brain and chemistry.
Q: Anything you recommend practicing or doing before attending a Design Human Engineering seminar?
More than anything else you should think what it is you really want in life. Going there with an intention and a purpose in mind.
Q: There is a short story called Carcinoma Angels you would love. It’s about a man with cancer who went inside his body, envisioned himself as a hells angel and killed all the cancer bikers. Have you heard of it?
That’s a cool story. We taught our son when he was 3 years old how to create an army of guys to go in and defeat the germs etc. We taught him this since he was sick a lot when he was three. He is 18 now and has been healthy ever since.
Q: Is the mental machine designed to choose what sub modalities are best utilized for the desired outcome?
Depends on how you build YOUR machine. You can identify which sub modalities will work best for you. We give you the tools and teach you how to use these tools, at that point the design is up to you. What works best for you. It is so individual to you, since it is about designing your experiences. Thats the freedom. Everybody has their own best idea of what will work for them.
Q: How were sub modalities discovered?
Sub modalities have been around forever, It was more about who discovered you can do something with them.
There have always been references about visualizing and imaging and having voices in your head, but to realize that people can have control over that, this is were the new magic came in.
Richard a long time ago when he started out was highly auditory, but other people were talking about making pictures. Once he realized that other used images he got really excited about being able to do things with them.
You have to use all the sense in your brain or else your brain isn’t really working.
And you can do this with language. The commands and the output. Anyone who is any kind of programmer realizes that once you write the commands and execute them, you need to pay attention to the output.
so if you are going to sequence something differently in a sentence notice how this will affect the sub modalities and how will those changes result in a change in behavior.
Q: How about a reality Strategy?
Reality strategy… pay attention to the person at moment in time. How are they taking what they believe is true and putting it through their own filters. How are they wrapping their experience around their own reality.
Q: If you come up with a good machine, You can teach someone else how to install that?
Sure if you come up with something really good, you can teach others. This happens a lot in seminars. You give them the steps and they install it.
As an example, sometimes need an altered state other than what they already have had so we have them do drug of choice exercise, learn how to access the resource state to have the experience when you wanted. Some people have no experience with recreational drugs and do not wish to do so, so we have had others in the group that have been able to transfer this state to others that never had the drug experience.
Its about teaching people to enjoy good lives, and demonstrating this. Demonstrate a good life and other people will follow. Leading good lives is where the magic is.
Q: Can you create a Design Human Engineering machine in someone else’s mind while you are talking to them without using NLP terminology, or perhaps telling then what you are doing?
Maybe not the machine, but you could rearrange ideas in their mind. it’s all based on perceptions and hallucinations anyway.
Q: How do you get the machines to work when you’re not thinking about them?
A good installation means that a very pervasive change is made at the neurological level, that is where you have full tilt boogie all senses firing off. So a good installation becomes part of your neurology. The brain likes to do what it likes to do, so if you give it something it enjoys it will continue to do it when you aren’t consciously thinking of it. It just matters how well you future pace it.
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