Interview on DHE with
John Lavalle at an
Mind Training Webinar
Webinars about NLP & DHE hosted
by Steve Boyley.
Transcribed by Craig Eubanks.
are offered as is from the Webinar with permission from Steve Boyley of The
Performance Institute of NLP. Minor editing and article formatting done
by Steve Boyley. The entire Webinar was done in a question answer format.
Questions are in bold indicated with "Q:"
Q: What is it
that sets DHE™ apart from NLP?
Just to keep it simple:
DHE™ contains basic skills of NLP, sub modalities, anchoring, language. But
the entire direction is different... NLP was mostly therapeutic in nature, and
remedial in nature, You know, lets go fix a problem.
Where as DHE™ is more
what are we doing now and into the future, more generative in nature. It's about
building tools in side your mind as opposed to solving a problem. it's about
taking things that you want to do, and do them even better, or things you want
to do and be able to do them really well. This is the baseline of it.
It is a whole Body/Brain
approach to doing anything you want to do better.
is NLP was sequential in terms of eliciting information, but DHE™ it is pretty
much simultaneous elicitation. Which most people don't understand because that
have not gone deep enough into trance yet.
Time lines are only
So this is more about
a self development focus of DHE™, DHE™ is about doing things inside to get results
outside. NLP starts with a self focus and then shifts onto others and an awareness
of them for information gathering
DHE™ is more about
what you can do for yourself so you can function better. Do things more elegantly
and be more creative. As opposed to fixing someone else's problems.
Q: Do you think
Children under 12 can be taught DHE™ as easily as adults?
No. But if the adults
would just learn to live a good life the children would do the same thing. Most
children already have the skill to be extravagantly creative, at least till
we put them in school and they get the creativity squashed out of them.
Q: Is it true
Richard (Bandler) once said that sub modalities where a set of algorithms 64
Richard was primarily
a mathematician and computer programmer, and musician. He never was a Gestalt
therapist, he only spent some time with Fritz Perls to help him finish a book.
So the idea about how
to manipulate sub modalities and how to make things work and how to transform
them into language... so how can you use language to adjust those 64 non-linear
variables to affect sub modalities. Richard extrapolated that from predicate
calculus and a few other things and created a formula for how that would work.
People don't realize
how easy it is to adjust other peoples sub modalities just through language,
without giving them an explicit set of instructions.
Richard was a programmer.
he knows how language works, and how programming works and how mathematics works,
so he figured how to put these together. That's why early on Richard was much
more able to do things than explain them. He was much better at doing them than
explaining things. He can zap a formula through his mind then say something
in a story kind of format and effect a change, which is why he is as good as
he is at what he does.
Q: A lot of people
say DHE™ born out of the thinking style Nicolai Tesla used, it that correct?
Well that is just one
component of it, the ideas Tesla contributes to DHE™ in that if you can imagine
it you can do it, and that You can build things in your brain. He constructed
the equipment in his mind and calibrate that against the equipment he would
build outside his mind.
The only thing Tesla
didn't have back then as far as we can tell, was the notion of time distortion.
Had he had that, we may have had a whole lot of other problems that would have
been solved a lot sooner.
Here was a guy that
could build different types of equipment inside his mind, and he could run that
equipment and measure it and the wear and tear over time, and calibrate that
against the piece of equipment on the outside. Tesla was really good at taking
something inside his mind and do it.
The other thing to
keep in mind, we said it for years and years, some people don't get it is that
the map is not the territory. But we keep telling people that The territory
is the map, in that the concept that someone can have an idea and then turn
it into a reality. Everything that is on the outside had to start on the inside
as an idea.
And the fact that someone
can have an idea and imagine the possibilities of being able to do something
first on the inside of their mind then manifest on the outside. The chair you
are sitting in right now started as an idea inside somebody's head.
It is not so much what
Tesla did with his mind, but that he had control over it, and the control he
had over it. And that is the functionality that comes from DHE™ training.
Q: Any corporations
receptive to the ideas of NLP or DHE™?
Corporations and businesses
are not interested in NLP, DHE™ or some latest technology. They want results.
Don't tell companies NLP or DHE™, they are interested in results. You tell them
you will get them results. So package what you have to them in the terms that
you will get them results.
Q: Do you think
a person could have enough control over their sub modality experience that they
could drink a glass off water and create ever physical sensation of drinking
- say a glass of expensive wine?
Yes it is called Positive
Hallucination. It is simple enough to do, it is a deep trance phenomenon.
Q: How would
you describe DHE™ to someone that had no concept of NLP?
It's a way of learning
how to build new tools inside your mind, to be able to take things you already
do and do them better. Or take something you want to do and be able to do it.
For example, you Can
build oscilloscopes in your mind to keep track of your voice, so you can adjust
your voice to the tonality and resonance you want.
Some people have built
laser measuring devices in their mind
Richard built a blood
sugar meter in his mind and got his insulin levels to cut in half. he simply
built a machine inside his brain so he would know what it is and where it should
Q: Is there any
literature out there you would recommend on DHE™?
There really isn't
a whole lot out there, "Time for a Change" has a little in there, it is very
difficult to explain in a book, that is why the book hasn't come out. Richard
and I have written and re-written the thing but it is very difficult to explain
Q: Do you use
handouts at the seminar?
Yes, we have a manual
we hand out, but that is just to give you a basis of some basic level skill,
and then handouts to help you build a control panel. But the idea for DHE™ is
that you only need a small amount of base information to get going. All the
rest you get to create because it is your world.
Q: Is it true
that Richard (Bandler) accidentally deleted one of his books?
Yes it is. Richard
doesn't have much luck with electronics, and he was about 3/4 of the way through
with a book, and he gets so excited about what he is doing he forgets to back
it up. And yes it went zip! away very fast and very far.
Q: How long is
the seminar? What happens over that time frame, can you describe what the experience
will be like?
DHE™ is 6 days long.
Richard talks, John explains.
When: Feb 24-29 2004
Where: Orlando, FL
How it goes depends
on the talent in the room and what people are willing to do. If we have a great
group, then exactly what happens is that people really pitch in and help each
other to develop new things.
Our seminars are really
different because of the way we run things, we keep all the assholes out, they
wouldn't be able to handle all the freedom anyway.
Richard teaches by
talking, I get a little bit more into the content, I will explain some things
Richard doesn't get into. When he is there I let him do most of the teaching
as I love to watch him work.
Q: Have you found
that DHE™ produces more of a spiritual connection than NLP training?
That depends on the
experience you are going to have.
1st few days, they
calibrate the group so they know how fast they can go. They want to know how
fast or slow they can go and how deep and how far. Then cover basic skills stuff.
Then they teach how
to create things. They have a science fair, Van deGraff generator & Tesla coil,
and encourage people to bring things "toys" such as holograms and such. They
want people to play with these things
Tons of deep trance,
because you can do so many things in deep trance.
Most time spent in
the middle having you design things that you want to do differently
Then Last few days
is installation work.
There is never a dull
What are the differences
between your and Richard's (Bandler) spiritual beliefs?
I don't know if I can
explain Richards and how far they are in line with mine, but I want to make
the distinction between what's religion and what's spiritual. Religion is where
as long as it is a nominalization people want to get into your pocket for the
money. Spiritual to me is that you have some kind of connection than what is
on the physical plane here. To me, truly spiritual people live good lives...
they don't steal or hurt people. To me there is something out there though I
don't know just what it is.
Q: While at Steve
Boyley's training we got a sample of DHE™, what would be a real world application
of DHE™ outside of the training room?
Real world application:
applying DHE™ in manufacturing. You can teach an operator that is running a
machine, to calibrate the output of the machine to do this with tools inside
his mind. Instead of using physical measuring devices. I have had Mechanics
that can tell by vibration how much adjustment to make from the information
they can gather.
Another example is,
for those of you who come to our training you will see all the equipment on
the stage. We have a trailer all the equipment goes into. I can take a look
at all the boxes we have and equipment to go in, and know exactly what needs
to go in and exactly what sequence. It's just a matter of hallucinating what
is out side the trailer and hallucinating it inside the trailer in the sequence
it need to go in to fit. Sort of like hallucination the puzzle together before
Q: Can you affect
the environment around you with DHE™?
You can absolutely
affect things on the environment. Just depends how far you want to take it.
Q: What are your
opinions of the new energy psychology?
I don't pay much attention
since most of these things have been around for centuries. All the stuff that
came out of NLP wasn't created it was discovered. so all of these things have
been out there just explained in a different way so that people like us can
go out and do things and do things better.
If people are coming
up with a new way of explaining what has been going on for eons, I am not really
that interested, however if someone can come up and explain a new behavior,
I am very interested.
I am also very skeptical
and wary of the field of Psychology attempting to suck up all these other disciplines
into their field so they can regulate them. So I am leery about a psychologist
all of a sudden coming up with a way to access a persons spirituality so that
some psych board can regulate it.
Q: I have heard
that Richard (Bandler) keeps a mental checklist for each person at a seminar,
is this true?
Richard keeps a checklist
above each persons head, this is different for each person. How he chunks it
and parses it I don't know. So he knows what to do next.
Q: Does Richard
(Bandler) have a photographic memory?
Everybody has a photographic
memory, it is just a matter of how far they have developed it.
Q: How do we
explore DHE™ without getting big words or putting language to it? New ideas
vs Big Words?
Simple, when you have
an experience that you can't put words to then you have had a really neat experience,
and of course attempting to put words to well that is where the problem starts
so there we go.
Q: In some of
the trainings you guys teach this thing called control panels, is that related
or a component of DHE™?
It is a way of people
recognizing they can have conscious control. The idea is in DHE™ to first learn
how to have conscious control over your unconscious process. Because then you
can fine tune your unconscious process and do this elegantly with precision.
And you have to do that consciously because you want to know what you are doing,
what you are tuning up and how you are fine tuning things. Then you can let
it go back unconscious, so that the behaviors become unconscious for you.
Really its about people
having more control over what they do.
As a simple example,
some people can wake up in the morning at exactly the time they want with precision
within seconds of when they want, but most people that do that are not aware
of how they do that. Once they have conscious control and awareness of how they
do that, then they can fine tune it and apply it to other things they do.
It is just a way of
being able to map things out before you do the installation. Like Having a blueprint
before you build it out. You are not actually building a control panel, but
designing the installation. It is a way of getting to the installation.
Q: If someone
was getting into DHE™ or NLP for self development, would you recommend they
start with DHE™?
It really depends on
how much they want to do with with their own self development. DHE™ takes a
real shortcut to getting things done. We teach enough of basic NLP skills so
people know about anchoring, hypnosis, language patterns, and sub modalities
so it really depends on what they wan to accomplish with their self development.
We have people who have come through the training and their lives had changed
so radically they are happy as a clam. They are out there doing so many wonderful
The amount of information
that is really required in order to affect changes is not as much as people
would learn consciously in some other NLP seminar.
It is just a matter
of how much do you want to learn as opposed to how much you want to change.
Q: What is your
definition of a genius?
Definition of A Genius:
The people who are savvy enough to collect whatever information is necessary
that is going on in the environment at that time, take that information and
use it to calculate what to do next so that things happen.
In 1972/73 I had the
opportunity to meet Mohamed Ali, I asked him how he was able to avoiding being
hit like that. Later I was able with DHE™ to understand and analyze what he
told me. What happens is that he was using time distortion as well. He would
float outside his body from a couple of different positions so he could watch
himself fight. He would be in 3 or 4 simultaneous different positions, and was
able to see who ever he was fighting their muscle movements when they would
get ready to throw a punch.
Q: Is the main
challenge getting feedback to be sure the machines do what you think they do?
The first thing to
do is to calibrate yourself to a machine with such precision that you can replicate
that as you are testing without real live data. so you know your machine is
working on the inside like it was a machine on the outside. Then you go from
Q: Is the process
a lot to do with learning how to trust what you are already able to do?
Yeah that is a big
part of it. for most people what the don't realize is that they say "I will
believe it when I see it, when the truth is they will see it when they believe
Most people have it
wrong. As kids you believe a lot of these things, then you go to school and
they squash your belief system. So it is a matter of relearning how to do this.
Q: What is your
favorite type of anchor?
Sounds, those are the
ones that are easiest to slip in, easiest to fire off since most people don't
pay attention to them. They are focused on the visual and kinesthetic anchors.
I usually anchor in at least two or more modalities when I anchor.
Q: How would
you define Intuition?
I want to make a distinction
here between intuition and psychic ability.
Intuition is exquisite
calibration against what is going on at the moment. Highly tuned sensory acuity.
Fine tuned sense of calibration at the moment.
Psychic ability is
to be able to see the future.
Q: I would love
to be able to build a calibration machine to increase my ability to be intuitive...
How would I do that?
When you notice you
are getting intuitive information, notice when you are spot on. Make the distinction
in the sub modalities when you are spot on. Backtrack to that moment when you
thought it was going to happen, and notice how that had occurred in your modalities.
Use a benchmark for when it works. Then notice when you thought you had an intuition
but it didn't work. Then you can figure what it is that works. Compare with
what is working. There will be distance differences when it works and when it
Then you build a machine
based on what works. That includes you calibrating to your own experience so
you know it is spot on and take action on it.
And don't second guess.
The first one is almost always right, don't second guess.
Q: Do you think
the change personal history is all in the head or that maybe alternate realities
Combination of Both.
Everything is in our brain, the Past doesn't really exist, except for the way
we have organized our memories.
Q: Does it change
Of course it does the
that it affects now and how you will behave into the future changes things.
Q: How big a
factor is language in DHE™?
Language is always
going to be important if you are going to work with someone else or even yourself.
But it is not everything, but it certainly is important to give instructions.
You don't need to be an expert at it, but you need to pay attention to what
you are saying.
Q: How often
do you need to test and re-install your DHE™ machine to ensure it is working.
Is it a continuous conditioning process?
Great question. I always
suggest people build in a regenerative machine. So that you always want to be
better at anything you want to be good at. Have a feedback/feed forward machine
going on where I collect information about how I am doing against how I want
to be doing. So how did I do with that activity. And then gather the information
so if I want to improve it, or if I learned a new way of doing it the information
is already there. So that it is already in there the next time I go and do that.
That is what generative change is truly all about, building on that which you
already do well.
Q: How often
do you test and reinstall?
Depends on what the
activity is. But in some cases it is every day. It is just a matter of paying
attention outside your head. Are you getting what you want on the outside, then
readjust on the inside.
Can history repeat itself?
History doesn't repeat
itself your behavior does. It's your cell memory. The person really hasn't learned
from what ever it is they are doing. It's really simple, If you learn from your
mistakes you will tend not to repeat them.
You can change this
around just by paying attention to what is going on and making adjustments so
it just keeps getting better and better.
Is a machine similar
to a group of sequential anchors?
yes, because there
are so many anchors we use. anchors just trigger a response and that is how
machines really work anyway.
Q: Is DHE™ about
getting rid of limiting beliefs?
It's not about getting
rid of limiting beliefs. People can get rid of limiting beliefs. Beliefs don't
really exist inside our mind. They are just language patterns. A culmination
of language patterns. And those language patterns have built up synaptic connections
that prevent other information from getting through gateways.
It's about what you
give out and what you get back. Givers survive much more and have a happier
life. Then there are the takers...
Q: What are the
primary results of people who have taken the training?
This depends a lot
on the individual, but typically they contact me later on and tell me how something
they wanted to accomplish they have in fact accomplished and are on to bigger
and better things.
If you can imagine
it then you can do it. If you can imagine it is possible for you, then it is.
So really it's about
the degree of personal control in the design that people can have in their mind.
Q: You mentioned
early about about the sub modalities and making adjustments to isolating the
different sub modalities. How much does that play an effect in DHE™?
It actually has a lot
to do with it in the beginning. Everything culminates in the sub modalities
because that is the way encode information. So you have an experience, you process
the information, then you store the information and that is what is known as
a deep structure.
And that's what is
represented in the sub modalities, especially when you want to recall the information
or memories or resource, when you take from the hard drive inside your brain.
Everything is represented
through sub modalities, because that is how we encode information. This is why
sub modalities are so important.
One of the key factors
that are used for DHE™, people have gotten so accustomed to how they use their
brain everyday that they are not aware of what synesthesias exist, or what sub
modalities are there that they are using on a daily basis. And in some cases
are not getting them more of what they want in their lives.
So the first thing
we do is we work on the control panel. We teach people how to have very discreet
control over each sub modality one at a time, while holding all the others constant.
That way you are not driving the synesthesias like you have been and you get
more conscious control over each and every sub modality.
Then once you have
done that, you can build new synesthesias and combinations of things. But you
will not be able to do that until you learn to have discreet control over each
and every one of those sub modalities. That is an important part of the process.
Q: Would writers
block be an example of not being in control of the sub modalities?
Writers block could
be an example of not being in control of sub modalities, it can also be they
don't have enough good feelings. When you have the "right solution" writers
block goes away. What is the right solution, you need the right chemicals in
the brain. Sense of humor and being able to laugh at things.
People forget this
about how the brain works, the brain and chemistry.
Q: Anything you
recommend practicing or doing before attending a DHE™ seminar?
More than anything
else you should think what it is you really want in life. Going there with an
intention and a purpose in mind.
Q: There is a
short story called Carcinoma Angels you would love. It's about a man with cancer
who went inside his body, envisioned himself as a hells angel and killed all
the cancer bikers. Have you heard of it?
That's a cool story.
We taught our son when he was 3 years old how to create an army of guys to go
in and defeat the germs etc. We taught him this since he was sick a lot when
he was three. He is 18 now and has been healthy ever since.
Q: Is the mental
machine designed to choose what sub modalities are best utilized for the desired
Depends on how you
build YOUR machine. You can identify which sub modalities will work best for
you. We give you the tools and teach you how to use these tools, at that point
the design is up to you. What works best for you. It is so individual to you,
since it is about designing your experiences. Thats the freedom. Everybody has
their own best idea of what will work for them.
Q: How were sub
Sub modalities have
been around forever, It was more about who discovered you can do something with
There have always been
references about visualizing and imaging and having voices in your head, but
to realize that people can have control over that, this is were the new magic
Richard a long time
ago when he started out was highly auditory, but other people were talking about
making pictures. Once he realized that other used images he got really excited
about being able to do things with them.
You have to use all
the sense in your brain or else your brain isn't really working.
And you can do this
with language. The commands and the output. Anyone who is any kind of programmer
realizes that once you write the commands and execute them, you need to pay
attention to the output.
so if you are going
to sequence something differently in a sentence notice how this will affect
the sub modalities and how will those changes result in a change in behavior.
Q: How about
a reality Strategy?
pay attention to the person at moment in time. How are they taking what
they believe is true and putting it through their own filters. How are they
wrapping their experience around their own reality.
Q: If you come
up with a good machine, You can teach someone else how to install that?
Sure if you come up
with something really good, you can teach others. This happens a lot in seminars.
You give them the steps and they install it.
As an example, sometimes
need an altered state other than what they already have had so we have them
do drug of choice exercise, learn how to access the resource state to have the
experience when you wanted. Some people have no experience with recreational
drugs and do not wish to do so, so we have had others in the group that have
been able to transfer this state to others that never had the drug experience.
Its about teaching
people to enjoy good lives, and demonstrating this. Demonstrate a good
life and other people will follow. Leading good lives is where the magic is.
Q: Can you create
a DHE™ machine in someone else's mind while you are talking to them without
using NLP terminology, or perhaps telling then what you are doing?
Maybe not the machine,
but you could rearrange ideas in their mind. it's all based on perceptions and
Q: How do you
get the machines to work when you're not thinking about them?
A good installation
means that a very pervasive change is made at the neurological level, that is
where you have full tilt boogie all senses firing off. So a good installation
becomes part of your neurology. The brain likes to do what it likes to do, so
if you give it something it enjoys it will continue to do it when you aren't
consciously thinking of it. It just matters how well you future pace it.
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